Sunday, 24 June 2012

SISTA SUNDAYS: Dowie and Zion City

American Newspaper Reporting the Demise of Dowie
Many of us are aware that Hazrat Khalifatul Masih the Vth is by the Grace of Allah, on a visit to the United States. He recently visited Zion City and I thought I would have a look on Wikipedia to find out more about the words Zion and Zionism. Of course, I am aware that there are probably other better sources to find out about the words, but I like using Wiki.

This is what I found out that the word Zion is originally Hebrew and is used as a synonym for Jerusalem. There is a Mount Zion near Jerusalem and the word Zionism is used in more than one sense but also describes a political movement started in 1897 supporting a national home/state for Jewish people in Palestine. In the Rastafarian movement, ‘Zion’ means a place of utopia.

The Zion city in Illinois, that was visited by Hazrat Khalifatul Masih Vth (aba), was founded by a John Alexander Dowie (25th May 1847-9th March 1907) who was a Scottish Evangelist and faith healer who ministered in Australia but then moved to the US where he founded the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church. He claimed to be the forerunning of the second coming of Christ and he said that when Christ did return the second time round, he would destroy Islam and Muslims. I believe he used some harsh language whilst making these points and it was then that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) issued him with a prayer duel challenge. Dowie accepted and died in 1907, a younger man than Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as), paralysed and deserted by his friends and family.  

Of course, Ahmadi Muslims believe this event to be another sign of the truth of the claim of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and have even been blessed by the Grace of Allah with a Mission House in Zion city, Alhamdolillah.
*This blog is completely unofficial and in no way represents Islam Ahmadiyya or the views of anyone except the author themself.*

62 comments:

  1. @ All Ahmadis

    What a farce!!!

    1. Dowie never accepted the mubahila challenge, hence it is null and void.

    2. Dowie didnt want to cause death. Or give out death threats, or engage in mudslinging, hence, he avoided Mirza Sahib.

    3. Dowie actually backed off on his claim to he Elijah (as)..he claimed to be just the first apostle..hence, the death threat of Mirza sahib should have become null and void.

    4. Dowie lost his empire through a court order. Even after his small stroke...he was capable to speak and articulate. Dowie was very old ya know...anything can happen to old people. In fact...Mirza sahib died abruptly in Lahore as some Muslims had predicted.

    Ahmadis should google Dowie....there are many books written about him from an independent viewpoint.

    ReplyDelete
  2. How interesting, a fan of Dowie!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Sister

      A fan of Ahmadiyyat. I was born into this ponzi scheme...the brainwashing was hard to get rid of. And yes..I love reading..unlike you I have read lots of Mirza's work.

      Delete
    2. @ The Rash 'unlike you I have read lots of Mirza's work' - a bit harsh don't you think?
      and it is Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) as far as I am concerned
      and btw, well done of making it your full time occupation to reply to every single topic on this site.

      Delete
    3. @ Sister

      1. I am very fast with an internet connection. Ask Batman for response speed. Im sure its 10 responses in 15 min.

      Delete
    4. I am thinking of publishing an article about The Rash's internet connection so we can all indulge in a heated debate on that subject.

      Delete
    5. @ Batman

      1. I have fans and haters. Pick a section.

      Delete
    6. I have no hatred towards you and neither am I your fan.

      Delete
    7. @ Batman

      I am famous ya know.

      Delete
  3. @The 'Rash' or 'Rationalist' or whatevs.

    I like the nice picture on the article by the American newspaper at the top. Nice, isn't it? Like they would publish something fake... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ gram

      It needs to be researched better. Per Mirza sahib...if someone neglected to agree to any Mubahila it was the null and void.

      Will you read some on this before commenting??

      Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf3St7WrOa8

      Delete
  4. What was Cult info's argument about the above article? I remember them posting something about it? About whether he called himself a messiah or prophet? I can't remember exactly but can someone remind me?

    Jzks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ The Rash, he replied that the Promised Messiah was a 'gnat or fly' so too insignificant for Dowie to reply to, I think that is a reply enough, dont you think, showing alot of arrogance and complete disrespect of what the Promised Messiah had said? In the end, Rash, it is about Allah accepting the challenge, in other words, if Allah did send Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) and someone calls him a gnat or fly, then what do you expect? Dowie claimed to be a religious leader, he could have shown some common good manners, rather than the response above.

      Delete
    2. @ Anonymous,

      1. What you dont know is that Mirza sahib explicitly said that both parties have to accept the Mubahila for it to be valid.

      Delete
    3. So saying that he will crush Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 'like an ant' is in your eyes not accepting the challenge?

      Delete
    4. @ batman

      1. He didnt even mention his name. He was like whatever....

      2. Hence, the mubahila was not valid. In other instances...Mirza shaib waited for Lekh Ram to accept... look it up.

      Delete
    5. Saying you will stamp on someone to destroy them like ants is a de facto acceptance of the challenge.

      Delete
  5. @ Rash The Acceptance was explicit or implied. It is clearly implied above. Also Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS stated:

    But if Mr Dowie does not respond to this notice and offer a player according to his boasts and is removed from the world before my death, this would be a sign for all the people of America.
    (A Critical study Of Prophecies of Hazrat Ahmad- Naeem Osman Memon)

    Phoenix

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Phoenix

      1. Ahmadis have written about Piggot that he repented..hence the decree was avoided. Which is wrong by the way.

      2. Dowie, also repented, he lowered his claim from John the Baptist to the first apostle in 1905-06...however, he still lost his empire.

      3. The newspapers that you refer to, they hated Dowie, they had personal problems with the guy...hence, they blew up the story.

      4. What about Sanauulah predicting the death of Mirza sahib? What about Dr. Khan predicting the death of Mirza sahib? Those came true...

      Delete
    2. @ Phoenix

      Do you know how Mirza sahib died? Do you care what his Father-in-law wrote? Do you know what he wrote? Do you condemn that book?

      Delete
    3. RE: Repenting cannot avert punishment with regards to a prophet's revelation

      Yes it can. See people of Jonah as per Qu'ran and Bible.

      Delete
    4. @ Batman

      That is an extreme case. And...no one else gave death threats to as many people as Mirza sahib did.

      Yunus (as) was facing different circumstances. No one ever physically threatened the life of Mirza....he had the Brits to protect him...no one ever came to his house ready for a fight...

      Mirza sahib was never in a fish either.

      Delete
    5. Well Muhammad s.a.w. was never in a fish either, but have you read the number of Qu'ranic ayahs which tell us the Meccans will be destroyed? Why weren't they? They repented.

      Delete
    6. This is absolutely false allegations on true prophet of God to protect a false prophet

      When quran talks about makkans it is about after death or in wars and in both it was true

      Delete
    7. Don't lie. I made absolutely no allegation against the pure and perfect character of The Holy Prophet s.a.w. I told you what it says in The Holy Qu'ran and you denied it. How many verses on this subject do you want by the way?


      And that Allah may purify those who believe, and destroy the disbelievers.3:141

      And Allah had surely made good to you His promise when you were slaying and destroying them by His leave 3:152

      O ye people of the Book! believe in what We have now sent down, fulfilling that which is with you, before We destroy some of your leaders 4:47

      Do, then, those who devise evil plans, feel secure that Allah will humiliate them in their own land, or that the punishment will not come upon them whence they do not know? Or that He will not seize them in their going to and fro so that they shall not be able to frustrate His plans? Or that He will not destroy them through a process of gradual attrition? 16:44-46

      You should read The Holy Qu'ran from time to time. You might actually learn some of the basics about Islam.

      Delete
    8. By the way, the last quote is from Surah 16 which begins with 'The decree of Allah is at hand, so seek ye not to hasten it.' How about this one though, which is even more clearly and explicitly about how Allah will destroy the Meccans:


      Now, if you do good, you will do good for your own souls; and if you do evil, it will be to your own loss. So when the time for the fulfillment of the latter warning came, We raised a people against you that they might cover your faces with grief, and that they enter the Mosque, as they entered it the first time, and that they might destroy utterly all that they conquered.17:7

      Delete
    9. @ Batman

      Did Muhammad (saw) or Yunus (as) have gentlemens-debates with people wherein they eventually told those people that they would die???

      I think not.

      Delete
    10. What about Hadhrat Noah? Because that is EXACTLY what he did. He went and debated with his people and eventually he told those people that they would die. Yusuf Ali's non-Ahmadi translation of selected verses of The Holy Qu'ran presented below:

      We sent Noah to his people. He said: 'O my people! worship Allah! ye have no other god but Him. I fear for you the punishment of a dreadful day!The chiefs of his people said, 'Surely we see thee to be in manifest error.'He said, 'O my people, there is no error in me, but I am a Messenger from the Lord of the worlds' (The Holy Qu'ran 7:59-62)

      We see several further instances of Noah a.s. returning to debate with the chiefs of his people in The Holy Qu'ran and their answers. Finally this sequence of events culminates as follows:

      "And he started making the Ark; and every time the chiefs of his people passed by him, they mocked at him. He said, 'If now you mock at us, the time is coming when we shall mock at you even just as you mock now. Then you shall know who it is on whom will come a punishment that will disgrace him; and on whom will fall a lasting punishment.' (The Holy Qu'ran 11:38-40)

      Here Noah doesn't just inform those same people that they are about to be destroyed, he also informs them that the believers will mock their ignorance.

      Delete
    11. @ Batman

      Was there an impending flood that was about to wipe out 90% of India??? Is that what Mirza sahib was talking about???

      1. Mirza sahib had a gentlemens deabte with Athim.....he exploded and told athim that he would die...Athim was already an old man of 60+. Then..Athim didnt die in 15 months...he later died of old age.

      Delete
    12. Athim repented. That was part of the prophecy and the reason he did not die. He stopped making his vile and foul mouthed attacks on The Holy Prophet s.a.w. which had been the initial reason for the prophecy and so the prophecy was averted.

      No. Your point was that it was wrong for Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to tell those who insulted The Holy Prophet s.a.w. that they would be destroyed. I was saying that Hadhrat Nuh (amongst several prophets) did the same on a much larger scale. Your complaint was that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad should prophecise the destruction of a few people. My answer is that in this case you should have a far greater objection to Hadhrat Noah.

      Delete
    13. @ Batman

      1. Athim never repented..where is your proof. As well all know, when the 15 months elapsed..Athim was paraded around the streets of some city in India.

      1.a. What writings or records do you have to prove that Athim repented in his heart? You have nothing.

      2. By the way...Athim wasnt the only christian was attacking Islam in the region...there were 10000000's of them.

      3. How old was Athim in 1893? Didnt he die of old age??

      4. Im sorry..was there an impending flood that Mirza sahib was warning people about?

      5. If you started telling everyone who insulted Muhammad (saw) that the wrath of Allah was upon them....you would never end.

      5.a. Muhammad (saw) would get trash thrown on him...he prayed for that lady..he didnt tell her that she was gonna die in 15 months.

      5.b. We should follow the example of Muhammad (saw).

      Delete
    14. 1- At some later date, insh'Allah, I will start a seperate post about Athim and then we can discuss this issue in detail there. If any Ahmadi Muslims want to volunteer to write the article they can, but otherwise you're going to have to wait for me to do the necessary research on this issue to write something about it.

      Delete
    15. And for the public: Currently there are a long list of things in the backlogue that need to have articles written about them. Athim is towards the end of that list. So if any Ahmadi Muslim wishes to hurry the process along they are more than welcome to write an article on him for us. Also, for the sake of fairness, The Rash if you can write respectfully about Islam Ahmadiyya you are also welcome to write an article, but we will not publish it until we can simultaneously publish the Ahmadi Muslim's refutation of this allegation (as although we are commited to free speech and allowing others to express their views, in the end this is primarily a site for Ahmadi Muslims so we wont publish anything against Ahmadiyya without the Ahmadi Muslim refutation. See the recent series on the Belief articles where we have openly allowed a non-Ahmadi Muslim to offer his beliefs on Jesus a.s. but these are presented side by side with Ahmadi Muslim beliefs for an idea of what I mean).

      Delete
    16. @ Batman

      Are we friends now...lol

      I told you..I can teach you proper research methodology. Not what those Murabbis at Jamia are teaching, that stuff is skewed.

      1. Find one reference from books or writings that prove that Athim repented. Good luck.

      Delete
  6. what happens to the same implied acceptance when it comes to mirza tahir and ilyas sattar ?????

    you keep bending rule as you go along donot you ????

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes..they bend the rules wherever and whenever they need to. Its a legal ponzi scheme.

      Delete
    2. The Promised Messiah and each of his subsequent khulafa have died natural deaths in their mid seventies. Also, before his death Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad predicted it shortly beforehand and said he would die on a journey. Then for someone else to come along and predict he will die in Lahore is just basically copying the prophecy Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had already made.

      Delete
    3. @ Batman

      If you show me all of these after-the-fact prophecies..I can prove them wrong.

      I am the Ahmadiyya Almanac ya know. And..I dont have a team. Most of the time..my data from raw memory.

      Delete
  7. @Anon, you need to look at the exact words used...who was ilyas Sattar?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Rash, no Rash, it is you that bends the rules, bends arguments, tries to bend minds and in fact are pretty slithery altogether, dont you agree?

      Delete
    2. I know who is ilyas Sattar. so whats your point ?

      Delete
    3. I am famous ya know..

      How do you expect me to act when say the Mirza sahib and All Ahmadis were wrong on the DOB of Mirza til it was permanently corrected in the 1930's or so??

      Delete
  8. see some amazing refrence here

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/forumz1835/index.php?showtopic=4402

    ReplyDelete
  9. Batemans

    Mirza predicted his death at age of 80 and first u bend the rule to add or subtract 6 years to make it approximately 80 then change his date of birth later than what he actually said about his age to make his age 74

    Hence prophecy fulfilled

    If that is the way how prophecies are fulfilled then I tell u even hinds jogis have their predictions come true ally the time all u have to do is all u have to do is add some words or change what ever said to new wordings and after the event make some more changes and all will come true

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm pretty sure his actual statement was something like 'around 80' and if you work it out in Islamic years rather than the Christian calender then you will see he was almost 80

      Delete
    2. We have now published an article refuting this allegation, which is totally unfounded here:

      http://cultgirlahmadiyya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/refutation-allegation-prophecy.html

      Delete
    3. @ Batman

      I have posted in 4 other places that this is wrong. Refer to them.

      When someone writes that they were born in 1839, and they mention a historical event like the end of Ranjit Singh...then, 8 years later..his his official magazine confirms 1839 as the date...

      What are we supposed to believe??

      Delete
    4. And I have replied in four other places that you are wrong. Rather than have this debate in four places please refer to one of them.

      Delete
  10. 74 islamic does not make 80

    In 80 years there will be difference of 2 only

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. prophecy wording was

      “That is [Arabic] Your age will be eighty
      years—a few years less or some years more;
      and you will live long enough to witness your
      distant progeny.”

      this prophecy clearly states that age of promised messiah shall be around 80, NOT EXACTLY 80

      once again you proved that behaving like blind and deaf people are integral part of your psyche.
      its totally HARAM (illegal) for you guys to use mind in religious research.

      Delete
    2. @ anonymous

      1. this is an example of your prophet back-peddling.

      2. This was one of those AFTER_THE_FACT prophecies that Mirza sahib was notorious for making.

      3. This quote is from 1900. However, in 1891, Mirza sahib was 52 years old and was getting revelations to the effect that he would live til 80...he was referring to hadith which said that Esa (as) would live 40 years.

      4. 1891--2021. Mirza sahib should have died in 2021. However, he died of cholera in 1908 (see the bio written by Mirza sahib;s father in law).

      Delete
  11. Was there any prophecy which was not changed after event
    Only one can any one show only one which was not changed after event

    It is just like hinds jogis read them they also do the same to their predictions and have thousands come true in similar fashion

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have failed to read the article or any of the comments which have already explained what you have written. This prophecy was never changed, it always read 'or a few years less'.

      Delete
  12. By the way 73 islamic does not make 76

    But if u are committed ahmedis u can make 73 Georgian to be 80 also in some shape or form
    Just try it u will be able to stretch it

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mīrzā Ghulām Aḥmad[1] (Arabic: ميرزا غلام أحمد; Urdu: مرزا غلام احمد; 13 February 1835 – 26 May 1908 CE, or Shawal 14, 1250 – Rabi' al-thani 24, 1326 AH)

      The second dates are the Islamic ones and by the way he himself said that it meant he would live to '74' or over which he did.

      Delete
    2. Mīrzā Ghulām Aḥmad[1] (Arabic: ميرزا غلام أحمد; Urdu: مرزا غلام احمد; 13 February 1835 – 26 May 1908 CE, or Shawal 14, 1250 – Rabi' al-thani 24, 1326 AH)

      The second dates are the Islamic ones and by the way he himself said that it meant he would live to '74' or over which he did.

      Delete
    3. He backpeddled...why dont you quote his first initial statements on the matter???

      Delete
    4. He didn't backpeddle. The over '74' thing was published with the original prophecy! What are you talking about....He published it as his own explanatory note alongside his original prophecy.

      Delete
    5. @ batman

      Just 4-5 years before that he was claiming to be 60-ish...then all of sudden he jumped to his mid-70's?????

      He purposely lied about his age. This guy lied about everything and anything.

      Delete
  13. @ The Rash, how dare you, you can't even read what he wrote because IT WAS IN URDU!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ ATA

      1. Why does it matter???

      2. Why did Malik Ghulam Fareed write a commentary of the Quran in english?? Why didnt he force people to read the original work??

      3. Why does Ahmadiyyat translate the Quran into 100000's of languages?? Why dont they force those people to learn arabic??

      4. Remember...I have a big brain. Its unusually sized bigger, blame Allah.

      Delete
  14. @ The Rash, oh, it matters.... it really really matters and if your brain really is so big, you know it....

    and even if it isn't really that big (not much Urdu in there..), you still know it matters
    @ Everyone on this site The Rash does his research in 99.9% English
    This has just made your comments over the last few weeks alot clearer

    ReplyDelete

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